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Would you like a 2nd server?

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Total Votes : 34

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Post by Dill on Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:35 pm

We have a few servers floating around, and I was hoping maybe we could get a 2nd official PSL server for Pugs/Practices. A few people are willing to pay for a Denver NFO server but I have no clue what the league would think about having a Denver server again to pug on. Those same people who would fund a Denver server I don't believe would support a 2nd Chicago server though. I just wanted to run a quick poll to see how people felt. Vote and post a more detailed response if you would like below.
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Post by killermaster on Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:46 pm

Well I prefer Chicago because most people live by there and you get low ping and most people likes that.

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Post by Warcat on Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:50 pm

Problem I see with this is that the majority of people who play on here live closer to Chicago than Denver. So whenever those people who live closer to Chicago want to pug they are obviously going to populate the Chicago server if neither server is populated.

Also with matches this will cause conflict with matches as there could be teams that want to play the match in the Chicago server and teams that want to play the match in the Denver server.
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Post by Dill on Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:18 pm

The Denver server would be for pugs only...I havn't discussed this with any other LO's yet, I just wanted to get a baseline as to how the community felt.

I think the best thing would be a 2nd Chicago server. Everyone is relatively used to the Chicago servers now and having two different locations just seems like a bad idea. Either way, it's annoying not being able to have 2 matches scheduled for the same time or having to quit pugging b/c of a practice or match that was scheduled. I just want a 2nd server. 1 dedicated 100% to Matches and the other to Pugs. Smile
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Post by panda on Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:34 pm

Time for panda rant.

It's super bullshit the server caters to those closer to Chicago. The reason we moved from Denver to Chicago in the first place was because those that got super low ping bitched the most and didn't stop bitching until it moved.

I don't see how catering to lower pings in a league is the right decision. It should, instead, be about finding a location where ping difference between those on either coast is the lowest. It should not be, "oh the majority is here so we'll cater to them". With Chicago, this is obviously skewed, as you have the majority of East coasters with 30 ping or below and the West coasters with 70+. If the ping difference wasn't 40+, I wouldn't be bitching.

With Denver, the pings are all around the same area (with very little exceptions compared to those with high pings now). The difference in pings between coasts is minor (10-20), creating a more fair experience for everyone.

If this was a pug community, then sure, Chicago would be fine. But if you want to say that this is a competitive league with matches, then you can't have such bias and major ping difference and still call it even. It's an East coast favored league. If the server was in Dallas, I would call it a West coast favored league.

I'm not saying this because my ping is majorly different between the 2. In fact I only get 10-20 less ping in Denver. I say this because I don't think it's fair that most get 30-40 less ping when in Chicago. Chicago cripples West coasters far more than Denver cripples East coasters.

End rant.

That being said, I doubt anyone will agree with me, so I'm fine with keeping one sever in Chicago. I don't see a person donating a second server in Chicago though, and don't think it should be on Stinger's shoulders to do so.

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Post by Nad on Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:02 pm

Sorry but this discussion has been settled time and time again. More East coast and centralized players that enjoy Chicago more. Just need a decent quality server -- thats probably the real problem at this point.

Don't really even want to step into to argue this because its stupid. The only person I see that has a bad ping (not routing issues) is Tyler, who still pings at 100+ in Chicago. Can't imagine in Denver. Anyways.


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Post by KansasCity on Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:07 pm

You can adjust to pretty much any ping as long as it is stable. An issue with having servers in both locations is that people won't be able to adjust pug to pug between servers. Also why do we need another server? There are at least 2 other non PSL servers for pugs. Why have somebody spend money at all when it really isn't needed. IMO, whoever is willing to donate now should keep the money and save it for when we need it. Idk when the Chicago server expires but I doubt stinger is going to pay for it forever.
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Post by sh4rpsh00t3r on Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:16 pm

Agree with panda, im as far west as it gets from chicago (Northwest) a denver server would be good for me, but not ideal for most..i dont know how the 10-20 ping increase would be for east coasters puggin in the denver server as far as getting used to goes.

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Post by Stinger on Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:02 pm

Heres the only 2 comments I'd like to say about this topic.

1. I can't afford another server - so if we want 2, I'm out of the running. I have always been a firm believer that any league server should be owned by an LO / the league itself (sponsorship), but if we feel that having 2 server / a different server is more important than that, I have absolutely no problem cancelling my servers for it or whatever. Obviously there is the option to have my server as well as a new one paid for by another player, but then I just don't see why people wouldn't donate instead, unless its on a different company / location, which leads me to comment #2!

2. If we choose to get a 2nd server, it can't be a different location / company than the 1st one IMO. That'll just fuck people up even more and reduce pugs due to players having preference on which server it is. I'm not saying Chicago or Denver is a better option, just saying we need to have some sort of consistency.
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Post by Warcat on Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:10 pm

Stinger wrote:2. If we choose to get a 2nd server, it can't be a different location / company than the 1st one IMO. That'll just fuck people up even more and reduce pugs due to players having preference on which server it is. I'm not saying Chicago or Denver is a better option, just saying we need to have some sort of consistency.
This exactly. A permanent increase of 10 ping wouldn't be a complete disaster but having to constantly switch pings when you switch servers will fuck you up even more than just having constantly 10 more ping. Also I can see people just using the Chicago server, because even though some of you might not like it we do have a lot more people in the east coast so generally the people in the east coast will want to use the Chicago server. Not saying this is right, but saying this is what will probably happen.
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Post by Bazooka Joe on Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:07 pm

U guys always have to make everything super complicated....

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Post by Forty on Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:26 pm

TBH, getting a server where pings are higher means people will need to get used to their pings again...As a goalie, my ping being 10-20 higher than normal means my reactions (though already garbage) need to be that much quicker..

I want to kepe Chicago
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Post by Forty on Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:39 pm

Bugen just bitched at me for my post so I read Panda's and honestly, majority rules, its how the world works. We can try Denver, but it's just going to make people bitch...There are no central enough servers that will make everybody happy....


So more people bitch with a server in Denver, or less people bitch with a server in Chicago...hmmm
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Post by panda on Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:50 am

panda wrote:That being said, I doubt anyone will agree with me, so I'm fine with keeping one sever in Chicago. I don't see a person donating a second server in Chicago though, and don't think it should be on Stinger's shoulders to do so.

Agreed that different locations/providers would be a terrible idea.


I don't think majority rules is the right way to do things, but it's definitely why the server is in Chicago. If I was saying this from a selfish standpoint, I'd say put the server in Dallas, as I get super low ping there. I didn't bitch when we moved from Denver to Chicago for two reasons, to quell the majority and Chicago is known for more stable routes, and I'm not really bitching here. I'm just stating my argument from playing in gaming leagues (depressingly) for so long. I'm more about making things fair rather than appeasing. If we all got around the same ping in Chicago, I wouldn't mind my ping being higher than others (I don't mind it now, as KC said anything under 100 is playable). The problem is there's a rather large discrepancy between pings, and Chicago favors East coast more heavily than Denver favors West coast (I still have higher ping than most people in Denver).

"Less people bitching" isn't really of my concern, like I said if this was a pug community, Chicago/Dallas/Denver are all great central locations. If you want to consider this a fully competitive league with the intention of creating a more even, fair environment for all players, then the server shouldn't be in Chicago.

I look at the situation like this, and this alone. In Denver, almost every single person has 40-60 ping. In Chicago, the gap becomes 20-80+. Since this argument's beginning (all the way back to SSL S1), I've always looked for an argument for Chicago that refutes this point. The only argument people for Chicago have ever come to me or posted is "majority rules".

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Post by m1tch on Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:02 am

hey panzee's why don't you just get used to the 10+ ping difference to make it a little bit more fair for those west coasters. I live in florida so im already getting 60-70 ping, so it doesent really matter to me. also have only 1 server cause you know all the fucking pussys will be complaining about the difference in location and how they suck in one server due to playing on the other server alot.
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Post by Cosmo on Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:38 am

I agree with panda though, we should find a location where the ping difference doesn't favor a coast line Smile
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Post by Dill on Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:41 am

1. I still think we need a second server. It is very frustrating to have to not pug because there will be a match or a practice, which always occurs during peak pugging hours.

2. I just wanted to revisit the Denver idea to see how people felt. Panda's point is very valid in that Denver does equalize out pings a little better than Chicago, but that 'majority rules' rebuttal is essentially what our entire league is based on. Moving it to Denver, while although would equalize all of our pings, would also make the majority of our players have increased pings which of course will piss people off.

3. Under 70 is playable. 100 is a little too high if you'er used to 50's. Tyler is the exception here because he's used to 100 and has always been used to 100.

Conclusion From Poll: 97% of the people voting want a second server. I agree that it should be via the same server company, in the same location, and with the exact same settings. I originally was just checking to see how people felt about Denver and it seems like people are against moving the server to that location. Now the only problem is finding funding for a second server because I absolutely agree that Stinger shouldn't have to pay for everything on his own.

~Dill

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Post by Dill on Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:48 am

Cosmo wrote:I agree with panda though, we should find a location where the ping difference doesn't favor a coast line Smile

That's a very good way of putting it. Both sides of the argument are extremely valid. The problem is people don't share the same ideas. It arises from the fact that when they vote, they vote on an individual level on what would be best for them, and not necessarily what would be fairest for all. Then again, on the flip side of that, is it fair to make the majority (the East Coast players) have to endure a potential ping increase after all this time of the server being in Chicago? And how much would that ping differential actually be and how much would it really affect them?

This topic might have been a bad idea as we'll never have a 100% consensus here. But then again it was never meant for that. I was just curious is all. Smile
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Post by Pride on Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:17 pm

Buying a 2nd sever is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Did you forget about the fail PSL Public server? Did you forget about the fail PSL Practice server? Did you forget about what happened when we actually had 2 pug servers? WE NEVER HAD 2 6V6 PUGS GOING. The way I see it, we are in the perfect scenario at the moment. People who want to 4v4 has a server to 4v4. People who want to 6v6 has a server to 6v6. People who want to play in a public server has NG. Point being, "Don't gotta fix what ain't broken ya' hear?"

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Post by m1tch on Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:27 pm

i agree with pride, but the only thing i want to see is a trial time for mabey a week changing our chicago server to denver and see how that roles out
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Post by Spock on Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:36 pm

does it really matter that much where the server is?

i mean i get like 8 ping in chicago which is nice but i dont care if im getting 50 in dallas or 70 in denver, ill get used to it after a week

just whatever you do, don't have a pug and match server in different locations
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Post by Dill on Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:45 pm

Pride wrote:Buying a 2nd sever is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
Looks like we found the 1 person who voted no.

Pride wrote:Did you forget about the fail PSL Public server? Did you forget about the fail PSL Practice server? Did you forget about what happened when we actually had 2 pug servers? WE NEVER HAD 2 6V6 PUGS GOING.
PSL Public was dumb, a dedicated practice server is dumb, and having 2 servers while we are in the off-season is fucking dumb. But while we have the actual season going on, having two servers isn't so bad of an idea. We have people schedluing matches, we have teams scheduling practices, and we have a constant time period in the evening when pugs go on nearly all night. With 3 separate needs for a soccer server, it gets a little crowded when we only have 1 to play on. The VAST majority of us agree we need a 2nd server and personally I think we would only need one as long as the season is happening (2 months absolute max). ...And not to even mention the possibility of an Impromptu match, scrim, or scrug, is very difficult with our current set of priority rules and stipulations while we only have 1 server. So add those 3 things and it gets even more crowded.

Pride wrote:The way I see it, we are in the perfect scenario at the moment.
It's definitely not perfect. If it was perfect 97% of the votes wouldn't have agreed they wanted a 2nd server. I don't like getting kicked out of a pug because someone scheduled a team practice or there is a match and I don't like to force people to quit a pug if my team has a practice or match. I absolutely agree 2 servers is overboard during the off-season, but it's not such a bad idea for right now during the actual season.

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Post by Church on Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:05 pm

I have not posted on this site in forever! :O. But I must say something for the hell of it.

I agree with Panda as well even though I do not play anymore.. But when I did, the ping difference in Denver was minimum compared to the large gap that is Chicago pings. And it does not help that this league has more east coast players than west. So they will use the "majority rules" argument and who would not want to have less than 30 ping.

Then the argument about them adjusting to Denver ping is not valid either. We played on Denver for a long ass time as well and the west coast people had to adjust to Chicago pings when it got switched.

In fairness, it would be good to have it in Denver. You guys even switched to a Draft League to get rid of the "OP" teams to make it a somewhat fair season. Which was needed to bring new interest for veteran players and give new players a chance.

In the end, this argument has always been a "heated" one. And it truly comes down to a few things: Who owns the server/Where are the majority of players located/The selfishness of players who want the lowest ping. Not to say that Stinger is like "Rawr, I pay for this shit.. IT GOES WERE I PLEASE!" But he or anyone else could be influenced by the east coasters or west coasters to keep it were it is.

****EDIT****
And two servers in two different locations is a bad idea. People will favor one, then they will argue on which to play in.. Just a whole big mess.

And I mean hell, if this league was big enough (but it is not)... you could split it in half and have east coast play in their own division and west coast play in their own division. Then do the season thing for both sides and then the winners of that season go onto the like a "Soccer Coast Championship" (lol) and play in a neutral server.


Last edited by Church on Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:12 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Felt like adding some more.)
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Post by Stinger on Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:37 pm

Welp I run the sever for the leagues desire. If its decided to move the location I have no issue doing so.

Tbh, if people want a 2nd server, we could just donate to the NFO account I have so the full burden of paying for the server doesn't fall on one person. If its only for 2 months / the remainder of the season it won't cost much at all.

If someone is willing to fully pay for the server that works too. Then we can try to figure out the location issue later.
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Post by Dill on Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:25 pm

Omega/Bugen/Myself (mainly those two) bought a second server for a 1-month trial run in Denver to be used strictly for pugs and practices and especially when matches and official practices are going on in the main Chicago server. This is in no way an 'official' PSL server and is going to be used as the home of the Honey Badgers. With that being said, we fully intend for the server to be used exclusively for pugging and will follow all standard rules of the PSL Match server.

You can still pug in Chicago, but we now have the option of Denver as well. This second server is just to get some practical data on what playing in Denver is actually like and if it truly makes a difference or not. After the month is up we can move it to Chicago or get rid of it entirely depending on the usage and performance of the server in that location.

Omega wanted all the bells and whistles on the server, so it's all top notch. Give it a shot and see how your ball registration is and how it 'feels' to play in that server.

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