Draft Season Ideas / Suggestions

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Post by Owns on Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:33 pm

the point of having people pick their preferred position isn't so they come to every match they play in saying, oh that isn't my preferred position I can't play it peace. It's for the player's who's preferred position isn't obvious, and when it does come down to the last few rounds if a GM is like, well idk exactly who a few of these people are but this guy plays D and I am short a D, they can pick them up.

And I think a good amount of people who tend to play W will be more apt to play D when there is an added amount of strategy and coordination involved in D, than just clearing it down the line.

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Post by scop3r on Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:19 pm

caps is not hot shower, capsfan is capsfan. but that whole article is awesome. the dedication in that league is tremendous.

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Post by Warcat on Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:22 pm

scop3r wrote:i'm talking people that you would consider complete prospects, those picks in the late rounds that you're not really sure what you're getting, but you could teach and train them to become starters.
I see what your saying but this is doesn't really work in a league this small. Maybe if we had about 200+ players but not when we only will be having 65-80. Within a couple weeks of someone playing people can size them up on how good they are in comparison with other players, before a couple weeks they are not really going to even be good enough to even compete in PUGs. As for training them to be starters, I don't think anyone has ever gone from completely new player - starting player (on an average team) in the time of one season.

This would apply perfectly to your haxball league, because I'm pretty sure you guys have quite a few people, so everyone would not have played a lot (or at all) with some people, and to add to that there are many different servers. But it is a completely different situation in this league. We only have one server where everybody plays on and therefore everyone is going to get to know new players pretty quickly, the only variable with picking new players in late rounds is pretty much if you've never played with them before, and in that situation you would obviously infer that if you have never played with them before they have not played for very long, and are probably not too great.
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Post by panda on Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:26 pm

scop3r wrote:there are pleanty of people that frequent on the NG server that could easily play. yet nobody tries to get them in the league.

http://www.noobgalore.us/forums/official-bans-mutes-31/global-ban-panda-soccer-55697/

Stella wrote:The answer is no.
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Post by scop3r on Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:12 am

hey man, in a draft league, you're going to have to work with what you can draft. this means you won't be able to pick up the best or most active players in the draft. meaning you'll have to use those late round picks. and the league talent should be much more spread out, so it shouldn't be like it has been in the past.

and panda, people who play on that server don't check the forums... i'm not talking about posting on their forums. play in the server, find some people who show potential or seem to like the game enough to stick with it. add them to friends, then proceed to tell them about the league. you don't have to go through NG to talk to people playing on the server.

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Post by panda on Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:29 am

scop3r wrote:and panda, people who play on that server don't check the forums... i'm not talking about posting on their forums. play in the server, find some people who show potential or seem to like the game enough to stick with it. add them to friends, then proceed to tell them about the league. you don't have to go through NG to talk to people playing on the server.

I would love to do that (the playing on their server unbanned part).
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Post by scop3r on Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:32 am

eh, probably shouldn't have gotten banned then.

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Post by Spiffy on Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:43 am

What exactly is the reason for having a captain pairing instead of a single captain?

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Post by m1tch on Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:56 pm

thats exactly what im wondering
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Post by Stinger on Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:29 pm

Just to have better management of the teams + GMs will be responsible for things every game their team plays. If there is just 1 it gets to the point where their obligated to show up every game :O (Copy n paste from steam chat!) I also went on to say that it really doesn't become an issue until we reach 60 people and not 6 captain pairs, at that point we may have to reconsider having 2 GMs.
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Post by Warcat on Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:20 pm

There is much more to do as a GM than as a regular captain, and even being a captain on your own isn't exactly a walk in the park.
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Post by Stinger on Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:31 am

So ive been stuck on a certain issue to do with the draft and would like to see what other people think.

The issue is if GMs should have the ability to drop players from their team. Most people would probably instantly think "of course!", but after thinking about it more in depth you may realize that it causes some issues. What about the last picks? Obviously if someone of high skill is dropped from the team another would pick them up, but if they don't have the skill, then they may just be out of the season right off the bat. But at the same time, you could have an inactive player that does not deserve to be on the team. A third issue would be if we cannot drop players, we cannot add players mid season either (unless we increase maximum roster size). Take all things into consideration and post your opinion Smile

Also some updates :

- The season will be 2 full rounds. A round is when every team plays each other once. Like last season, the matches will be on Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday @ 8 / 9 PM EST.
- Since we will have no referees, it will be up to the GMs to notify an League Official after a game. The message should include final score, any fouls, and anything extra that they feel is necessary.
- The max number of sits has changed from being 3 games to 6 halves. A player will be deemed 'sitting a half' if they do not play a whole half due to substitution (if they time out / have to leave, then the half will not count against them). This may have to change if it becomes too hard to monitor or if we find sitting 6 halves can be obtained without be excessively sat.
- The number of halves sat will go along with a player when they are traded. This will add another aspect to trading and will keep it fair for people who are sat.
- It will be the PLAYERS job to notify an League Official when they are sat. It cannot be expected of anyone else to monitor it, as there is no way to easily do so.
- There will be no unbalanced number of players in trades. This means if you're trading for 3 players, you're giving 3 players.


Last edited by Stinger on Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Bazooka Joe on Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:43 am

scop3r wrote:eh, probably shouldn't have gotten banned then.

.......

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Post by scop3r on Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:37 am

there would honestly be many things to consider.

as for the trade for even amount of players, i'm not partially big on that one. say you have a great player, but are looking to add depth. you can't just trade your great player for another great player, because that doesn't solve anything. you could trade your good player for 2 good players though, and then you solve that issue. but, you would then be over the roster limit, forcing you to cut players.

the way that the haxball league works is this. after every season, the teams will stay the same. same leader (if they choose to stay), with the draft picks they got from their placement in the league. each team is allowed to have 3 keepers (including the gm). by keepers, i mean people from the previous season's roster. the rest of the team goes into the draft (if they wish to play again). you could implement that, but there's a lot of things that factor into this. you would have to decide if the whole draft season would be for more than one season. if so, then you could also add trading draft picks.

your other issue. not being able to drop players is pretty extreme. say you have some inactive players, you can't honestly punish a team because somebody can't play anymore. they should be allowed to drop them. this brings problems though. say some people don't want to be drafted by certain teams and want to play with their friends. so they don't enter the draft, so that they can enter free agency after the draft and be picked up right away by their friends. a way to get rid of that is to not allow Free Agent signings of people who weren't in the draft for a certain amount of time.

i'll add more when i can think of it.

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Post by SainT on Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:16 pm

Only allow players to be dropped if they are inactive. I don't know what would determined that they are inactive. Maybe if they don't show up for 4 or 5 matches in a row.

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Post by Stinger on Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:47 pm

scop3r wrote:as for the trade for even amount of players, i'm not partially big on that one. say you have a great player, but are looking to add depth. you can't just trade your great player for another great player, because that doesn't solve anything. you could trade your good player for 2 good players though, and then you solve that issue. but, you would then be over the roster limit, forcing you to cut players.
In your example, the one team would be left with 9 players after. I think you would end up seeing forfiets out of this team. With the other team having 11 people after the trade, if they have a very active team, the sitting 6 halves rule could easily cause them issues. I do agree itd be nice to have uneven player trades, but im not sure its the best idea for this season with a roster limit of 10 already.

scop3r wrote:the way that the haxball league works is this. after every season, the teams will stay the same. same leader (if they choose to stay), with the draft picks they got from their placement in the league. each team is allowed to have 3 keepers (including the gm). by keepers, i mean people from the previous season's roster. the rest of the team goes into the draft (if they wish to play again). you could implement that, but there's a lot of things that factor into this. you would have to decide if the whole draft season would be for more than one season. if so, then you could also add trading draft picks.
Thats something for us to look into later in the season imo. I think it will all depend if we did get even teams or not, and who is staying on which teams (people quitting / going to school / etc.).

scop3r wrote:your other issue. not being able to drop players is pretty extreme. say you have some inactive players, you can't honestly punish a team because somebody can't play anymore. they should be allowed to drop them. this brings problems though. say some people don't want to be drafted by certain teams and want to play with their friends. so they don't enter the draft, so that they can enter free agency after the draft and be picked up right away by their friends. a way to get rid of that is to not allow Free Agent signings of people who weren't in the draft for a certain amount of time.
The only thing somewhat blocking this is the Free Agent Signing Number : "My plan as far as players joining / being dropped during the season is to have it set up like most fantasy leagues on sites, where each team has an order # during the season. This means whoever has last pick in the original draft, will have first dibs on new players that wish to sign up. Once they use their order #, they are automatically moved to the end of the line. If this needs more explaining let me know, im not sure if people will fully understand it just from what ive typed."

Other then that, yeah.. But then again, if we have the 'the player must be deemed inactive to be dropped' rule, then it becomes harder to pick up a friend right away.

SainT wrote:Only allow players to be dropped if they are inactive. I don't know what would determined that they are inactive. Maybe if they don't show up for 4 or 5 matches in a row.
I suppose we could just use the same system we would be using for trades? So like if a GM wants to drop a player that he/she feels is inactive, he asks the LOs and if they deem him/her inactive as well, then the player can be dropped. If he/she isn't deemed inactive, the only way to get the player off the team would be via trade.
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Post by scop3r on Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:48 pm

well the team that trades the 2 players for the 1 player, then is forced to pick up a free agent, or they can choose to not, which would honestly make no sense, but they could.

and don't hurry and run the draft, you should try to get more people than the draft calls for, so some people wouldn't be drafted right off of the bat, then you'd have a free agent pool in the beginning of the season.

and what you were talking about with the free agency.. it's called waivers.

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Post by Warcat on Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:11 pm

What would happen if the person who had the Signing Number 1 never wants to pick up someone, thus stalling all free agent signings? Not entirely sure if I understand this correctly.

As for the dropping players, I think it should be reviewed by LOs as you said to deem if they are inactive or not. Like in previous seasons where after the free agent deadline if you wanted to pick up a player it had to be reviewed.

Which brings me to my third point, are we going to have a trade deadline and a free agent deadline?

Also I think if someone decides they are going to drop themselves off a team or are kicked off a team because of inactivity, they should have to sit the rest of the season or possibly if it's for inactivity have to wait a certain amount of time before they are eligible for free agency. This is to avoid people just quitting a team to get on another team, if they want to switch teams they would have to negotiate with their GMs to be traded.

EDIT: I also thought of this, it would be cool to have a forum for each team showing their players that are up for trade and whatnot, sort of like a transfer list. So other GMs know who this GM is willing to trade. And there should probably also be a thread to show all of the available free agents, and the order of the signing numbers.
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Post by scop3r on Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:15 pm

Warcat wrote:What would happen if the person who had the Signing Number 1 never wants to pick up someone, thus stalling all free agent signings? Not entirely sure if I understand this correctly.
you definitely don't understand waivers.

the way waivers work : let's say there is a waiver list, for this example, i'll use 6 teams. waiver order goes team 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. say somebody becomes a free agent, the top team gets priority of said player. it could be able a 24 hour period of waivers, in which all teams who want that player, would say they want to sign him. say teams 2, 4, and 5 all want to sign Anonymous, then team 2 would get the player. as soon as they sign somebody, they get bumped to the bottom of the waiver list. making the new list 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 2.
it's not that only the top team can sign somebody, it's that if more than 1 team wants to sign a player, then the team on top of the list gets them.

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Post by Warcat on Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:36 am

Ohhh, now I understand.
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Post by Stinger on Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:29 pm

scop3r wrote:and don't hurry and run the draft, you should try to get more people than the draft calls for, so some people wouldn't be drafted right off of the bat, then you'd have a free agent pool in the beginning of the season.
Well we already have a couple people. Most people signed up for the draft so we won't get much bigger pool then we already have.
scop3r wrote:and what you were talking about with the free agency.. it's called waivers.
Yeah, couldn't remember what it was called.
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Post by Nad on Sun Aug 07, 2011 3:03 pm

Free agency if the captain is smart should solve the inactivity problem.. Doesnt matter how "great" the player is.. If he shows, he gives you 6, he can be taught to be a better play in the process

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Post by Forty on Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:30 pm

-Min 8 Players per team, max 10 (not 12, as there may be an issue with people not showing up, etc.)

-Regular Rules for the season

-All teams make the Playoffs (if there are 6 teams all of them make it, else if more than 6 only the top 6 make it)
Best (1st and 2nd) gets a Bye to the Semi Finals, 3 v 6 and 4 v 5
1st plays the Winner of 4v5, 2nd plays the Winner of 3v6

-Uniforms if possible; also team crests (SSL bishes)
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Post by Warcat on Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:15 am

I think I like 40s idea for the playoffs, but I think 1st should play the lower seeded team, not just the 4v5, because the 2nd place team could end up playing the last seeded team, and the 1st the 4th seeded team and that isn't much of a reward for coming in first
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Post by Forty on Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:04 am

Warcat wrote:I think I like 40s idea for the playoffs, but I think 1st should play the lower seeded team, not just the 4v5, because the 2nd place team could end up playing the last seeded team, and the 1st the 4th seeded team and that isn't much of a reward for coming in first

But most likely the 3 team will beat the 6 team, but you are correct. It is just something I threw together. It was just mostly assumed that 3 will beat 6 and 4v5 will be the highest/lowest seed left for #1 to play..
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